Friday 17th February, 2017

Ask the TD - part 3

By Mad Harper

Welcome to Part 3 of this series to allow players to ask any questions about rulings situations that they may have experienced whilst playing. To answer the questions submitted, we have invited some of the most respected TDs in the game to give us their opinion.

Here's a reminder of our panel:

  Christian Scalzi – Tournament Director, World Poker Tour Europe 
@scalzichris   &  @TDWPTEurope
Christian started in the Casino business 20 years ago, dealing on cruise ships. He progressed to become American games instructor for Casino Sanremo and Campione Casino, also working in the French Riviera Casinos in Cannes and Menton. In 2006 he moved into poker with his first event in Sanremo. Matt Savage brought Christian into the WPT Family as TD for WPT Europe in 2011.

 

  Chris Gawlik – Planet Hollywood Poker Room Manager 
@TDChrisG 
Chris moved to Las Vegas in 2008 to pursue his passion for poker and started as a dealer for the World Series of Poker. From there, he moved into a supervisor position at Bally’s for the next three years until he transferred to Planet Hollywood Resort & Casino poker room. He was quickly promoted to Planet Hollywood Poker Room Manager, where he took the opportunity to elevate the room into an industry leader and destination gaming hot spot. In 2012, Chris founded the Phamous Poker Series, one of the biggest poker series in Vegas, and hosts numerous charity events within Planet Hollywood.

 

Toby Stone – PokerStars Live
@tobesstone

Toby Stone learnt to deal poker in the early 90s and was quickly promoted to supervisor in one of the biggest and busiest poker clubs in the UK. Since then he has worked in all areas of the poker industry from dealing to online management to managing live rooms. In 1994 he left his permanent Card Room Manager position to become freelance floor and soon became one of the most sought after floor/TD in Europe. At PokerStars, he jointly ran the EPT, and was fully responsible for the UKIPT and Estrellas Poker Tour. He now co-runs PokerStars Live events all over the world. He won "Best Tournament Director" at the 2012 British Poker Awards.

 

  Marcel Luske – President, FIDPA 
@MarcelLuske 
FIDPA was established in 2007, by professional poker player Marcel Luske, the Founder and President, and Michelle Lau, Co-Founder. In 2002,"as the founding father of the International Poker Federation" (IPF), Marcel successfully created a governing body for the game of Poker in Europe. Marcel started raising standards and bringing awareness to help support ,safeguard, and increase the international growth of the game of poker.

The Question: 

“We were on level 4, which was 200/400 (no ante) and I opened QcQs UTG to 900 with an 80bb stack. A relatively tight player in the 5 seat shoved all in for around 3,200 and was called by the button, who has a similar size stack to me. The button has been flatting into a lot of hands and likes raggy aces, so I trying to think about how much I want to raise when action comes back to me. Before I can do anything, the dealer puts out the flop (Ah5c9s) and the whole table shouts that there was still action pending. The player on my left tells me that I should just put in 2,800 if I had wanted to call, but I chose to call the floor.

When the card room manager came over, I explained what had happened and he said that I could call or fold. I thought the flop should be re-dealt after I have made appropriate action, but he said that could not be done and that I could call or fold. Knowing the player on the button, I angrily folded and he showed an Ace!

I have seen the flop being re-dealt before in a situation like this, so I wanted to know what the correct procedure was.” 

 

The Answer:

This is one of those annoying scenarios we've all experienced - but what's the expert opinion?

Christian  Scalzi

A player can't make any action knowing in advance the board's cards and his right to make action can't be killed because the dealer has tabled any street of the board and there is no substantial action yet (see relevant TDA's rules below).

In this case we usually don't consider the flop, we give to the player the right to make action and if a new flop is required we'll table a new one.

The TDA's relevant rules are:
35:  Substantial Action
Substantial Action is either A) any 2 actions in turn, at least one of which puts chips in the pot (i.e. any 2 actions except 2 checks or 2 folds) or B) any combination of 3 actions in turn (check, bet, raise, call, fold).

RP-5. Prematurely Dealt  Cards: Board and burn cards are sometimes dealt prematurely by mistake, before action on the preceding round is finished. The following are general procedures for dealing with these situations: A: For a premature flop, the flop burncard is left in place as the burn. The premature flop board cards are returned to the deck stub and reshuffled. The flop is then re-dealt (without another burn card) from the newly shuffled stub.

Chris  Gawlik

As long as substantial action hadn’t taken place yet you should have had open action with the flop being re-dealt as it came out prematurely.  Again, this is another spot in which you could request a second opinion from someone higher up than the first floor to come to your table. 

Marcel  Luske/FIDPA

According to Fidpa Int. Poker rules:  http://www.fidpa.com/index.php?p=rules&s=526&c=81&t=rule

  1. A)  PREMATURELY EXPOSED CARDS/ FLOP
  • If a dealer accidentally exposes the flop cards before the betting round is complete:
  1. All flopped cards and the burn card, not including discards, will be returned to the deck.
  2. The cards will be shuffled back into the remaining deck, as if no flop cards were exposed.
  3. After the betting round is complete, the dealer will shuffle the cards, cut the deck, burn the top card, and deal a new flop.
  •  It is possible to place the turn and river card that suppose to be coming out that hand,already in place, close down at the table, before reshuffle the deck to get n new flop is done, but that depends on how the management handles and understands the full procedure.starting with bringing out a total new flop first).
  • the idea is to replace the  original  board as best as possible at all times to be as fair as possible for all players!

Toby Stone

This is an incorrect ruling in my opinion.  Assuming there is no challenge from the dealer or other players that you indicated a check (that happens with new players sometimes as they don’t realise tapping the table is a check) in this situation we will re-deal the flop.  You can then make your action and once the action is over the flop cards will be brought in, leaving the burn card face down on the table, the whole remaining deck would be shuffled and cut (not with the passed cards), the first three board cards will then be dealt again without burning, from here carry on as normal.  There are a few other interpretations of this rule but all of them involve re-shuffling and re-dealing those exposed cards.

Watch out for our next ‘Ask the TD’ where we have the panel’s answers to an issue that happens from time to time, and it is in your best interest to know what you should do if it happens to you!

If you have a question about a ruling situation in poker, please get in touch and we will get our panel’s opinions for you.